Are white guys finally starting to catch on?

[iraddict]

Recently I've gotten into the Men's Right's scene. Primarily because with a 60% divorce rate (which is closer to 80% in my age and income bracket) I find it unfair that women are almost always awarded primary custody of the children by default. Anyway, that's beside the point.
The reason I'm writing this post is because the Men's Right's movement is getting huge. And it's almost exclusively white "beta" guys who, if you spend any time reading their sites, it becomes obvious that they feel completely emasculated by today's modern women, feminism, and political correctness in general.
They complain about women's sluttiness (I've even seen links to the same "booty poppin" videos that I've seen linked to here and on other IR sites as evidence of this) , their dominant behavior towards men, etc. The word "cuckold" comes up a lot. As do references to white women, specifically. And the fact that they want a "nice safe, beta male they can treat like shit and use for his money" for a husband, and an "alpha" or "thug" to fuck on the side.
Basically, the MRM guys fall into two camps. The one's who are pissed and have just said "fuck it. I don't want anything to do with women" and the guys who are learning "game". Which is basically just learning to treat women the same way that black guys do. Like bitches and hoe's. It's getting huge. And it works.
And before you think this is just a few bitter guys on the internet, there have been several articles come out in the last few months in periodicals such as "The New York Times" and "The Atlantic" among others talking about these sites and white guys declining interest in marriage, relationships (other than sexual), and family.
Also, I just watched a movie the other day called "The Ugly Truth" starring Katherine Heigel and Gerard Butler in which the male star plays an advice show host for men who advises guys to be mean to pretty girls, slaps the female lead on the ass several times (before they become a couple) and advises women that if they want to get a man, all they need to do is "get on a treadmill". It's a romantic comedy, so obviously he gets the girl in the end. But he doesn't get it by making some big romantic gesture like in the old days. In fact, his behavior stays the same throughout the entire movie. His outlook is women are fun to fuck, but don't fall in love (although in the end he does fall in love. But when he asks her why he loves her, he replies "God only knows...), don't put up with any shit, and get as much pussy as you can, and when you're done with her, move on to the next one. Basically the same theme's as any rap song pertaining to women. And like I said, this is a romantic comedy, so it's target audience is women.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that it looks like white guys are getting tired of being the "nice, sensitive, caring" housebitch hubby and are catching on to the fact that if you want to get laid by lots of hot women, as opposed to being used and dumped by one not so attractive one, they need to start acting like black guys. And one thing both the camps agree on is that marriage and family are over and should be avoided at all costs... Basically, it seems like we're all reacting to the same emasculation of white men. Albeit in different ways. We're sexually excited by it, while they are either pissed enough to avoid women all together (they've even coined the term MGTOW, or Men Go Their Own Way), or they've decided that "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and have stopped caring about women for anything other than sex.
Now I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of this (except that guys should be given equal custody of children in divorce) but I'm wondering how this is going to affect white families, marriages, and society in general.... Is the dynamic going to become more like the inner cities? Low marriage rates, lot's of single mothers, men competing for women by becoming "harder", etc?
Anyway, I'm sorry if this question was too serious, but it just seems to me that the cuckold community and the MRM community are both reacting to the same behavior they see in white, modern women. Namely, the looser sexual morality, dominant or dismissive behavior towards the "nice, supportive, sensitive" type, and the physical attraction to the "thug" type. Does anyone else have any thoughts? Have any of you guys visited the MRM sites? Am I just imagining a connection? I'd love to hear what you guys (and girls) think.
And again, I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing. I'm just making an observation and I'm curious as to what your thoughts are....
By the way, if you're curious as to what I'm talking about, just do a google search for "The Spearhead" (the MGTOW camp) or visit www.roissy.wordpress.com (a proponent of "game"). Both have massive readerships and, if nothing else, are extremely interesting...

 

[Zagg]

This thoughtful question ought to elicit a lively debate. I'm particularly interested to see how the women respond. The one thing I'll not here is that the new behavior toward women that you're attributing to some white men seems very like the attitude of a great many black men.

 

[iraddict]

I meant to type "I'll note here", which might have made things clearer. I did mean white boys adopting the "player" mindset. But can they really pull it off?


Thanks for the reply Zagg. Although I'm not quite sure what you meant by:

"The one thing I'll not here is that the new behavior toward women that you're attributing to some white men seems very like the attitude of a great many black men."

Does that mean that you agree, or disagree that the new attitude towards women I described is the same attitude a lot of black men have? It occurs to me that I might not have been totally clear. Mostly I just meant that a lot of white guys (especially the younger one's) are starting to adopt the "player" mindset, as opposed to the "caring, commited boyfriend" mindset. Instead of looking to get married and have kids, the goal seems to be to get as much pussy as you can, but don't commit or get attatched to anyone. "Pump and dump" is another phrase that the "game" guys have trademarked.
I think black guys figured out a long time ago that marriage and children are a raw deal nowadays for men. Not to mention the fact that, even though most women (although I'm betting the women on this site will be a little more honest) will "say" they want a loving, sensitive type who is in touch with his emotions, that is NOT the kind of guy they're attracted to physically at all. Which, by the way, I think is perfectly natural. It's in our genes. Females want to breed with the strongest, most dominant alpha male they can get. Not the emasculated, PC type guy we've all been told we should be. Black guys know this. And I think white guys are finally starting to catch on. The only problem I see is that those type of guys don't really make very good husbands or fathers...

 

[tonyafox]

Hi all, I see where the OP is going with this but I do have a few observations and I'm not speaking for womankind here, just the way I see it, OK?

As far as the suggestion of white bois acting more "Black", I'm afraid sticking a Ferrari badge on a Volkswagen doesn't make it an Italian thoroughbred driving experience, guys!
I mean apart from the attitude and the obvious physical attributes, there is the touch, the smell, the passion, the SEX.
trust me, I could fill the whole page . . . .

Also, all white women don't treat all white bois with contempt and pity, just so we can use them.
Only the ones that want to be treated like that and they seem to enjoy it.
Cuckolding is a lifestyle, a mindset, it's not total world domination.

My advice to guys is and always has been this: if you like the ride the lifestyle will give you then hold on with both hands, if it gets too much then find a nice homely girl and settle down and have the 2.4 children and the house with the white picket fence.
It may even work for you, but deep inside there will always be the need to see your woman taken by a stronger more powerful Alpha male because you want your female to have the best and the gut wrenching jealousy you feel by watching is soon superceeded by sheer sexual excitement.

At least that's what my male friends tell me.

 

[willsrvu]

Well I can relate to both sides of the issue and there is truth to it.

When I was younger, teens through say 35, I was the basic thug type biker. Didn't really give a rats ass about how a women felt about anything, just used them as cum dumps. Never had a problem finding a willing one one when I wanted it. Always had half a dozen steady fucks I could call if I didn't score any strange that night or didn't feel like going out.

Seemed like the less I cared, the more they wanted me. I even had some turn me on to their girlfriends.

Got older and started to mellow out. Got tired of playing the field and started just doing the couples thing. Now women were attracted to me, not so much sexually, but as a potential mate as they appreciated the way I cared for and about my lady.

Got even older and between lowered testosterone levels and the damn hormones they pump into everything we eat, I'm now a submissive husband to my dominant wife and would love nothing more than to have her find a younger virile Black lover. We are totally honest with each other, she knows my fantasies and I hers and we often play to them such as she having me lick her pussy or masturbate me while she tells me about the Black studs that just fucked her and all the dirty details.

However, as yet she isn't interested in taking a lover, although she is very aware that she has the freedom to so whenever she wants. She is also willing to find one if it would turn me on, which I told her I only want it if it would make her happy.


Do I miss the old days? Sometimes. Would I give up what I have now? Hell no!

will

 

[tonyafox]

Well you too seem to be enlightened.
However, may I be so bold as to fill in a few gaps?
You say you just used women as cum dumps, remember that it was you that was being used as well, by us as cum dumper!
Women do like sex and we don't all want just one steady partner, think of it as two people being mutually used!
It's in our instinct to be attracted to a dominant Alpha, thug type if you will, that offers protection.
There's just something about a dangerous bad boy type that makes us want them.

Sounds like you have a pretty good relationship, but remember the step from fantasy to reality may only appear small but it will be a lifechanger, usually a good one.
Take it from one who knows - there is no going back for either you or her, she will never be satisfied by one cock anymore than you would be happy settling for one on one vanilla sex for the rest of your life.
This lifestyle really is a thrill-a-minute white knuckle ride, so you'd better hold on to your hat - and your heart . . . .

 

[Zagg]

Thanks for the insight into your personal history, will.

Well I can relate to both sides of the issue and there is truth to it.

When I was younger, teens through say 35, I was the basic thug type biker. Didn't really give a rats ass about how a women felt about anything, just used them as cum dumps. Never had a problem finding a willing one one when I wanted it. Always had half a dozen steady fucks I could call if I didn't score any strange that night or didn't feel like going out.

Seemed like the less I cared, the more they wanted me. I even had some turn me on to their girlfriends.

Got older and started to mellow out. Got tired of playing the field and started just doing the couples thing. Now women were attracted to me, not so much sexually, but as a potential mate as they appreciated the way I cared for and about my lady.

Got even older and between lowered testosterone levels and the damn hormones they pump into everything we eat, I'm now a submissive husband to my dominant wife and would love nothing more than to have her find a younger virile Black lover. We are totally honest with each other, she knows my fantasies and I hers and we often play to them such as she having me lick her pussy or masturbate me while she tells me about the Black studs that just fucked her and all the dirty details.

However, as yet she isn't interested in taking a lover, although she is very aware that she has the freedom to so whenever she wants. She is also willing to find one if it would turn me on, which I told her I only want it if it would make her happy.


Do I miss the old days? Sometimes. Would I give up what I have now? Hell no!

will

 

[curiouscraig45]

Hi all, I see where the OP is going with this but I do have a few observations and I'm not speaking for womankind here, just the way I see it, OK?

As far as the suggestion of white bois acting more "Black", I'm afraid sticking a Ferrari badge on a Volkswagen doesn't make it an Italian thoroughbred driving experience, guys!
I mean apart from the attitude and the obvious physical attributes, there is the touch, the smell, the passion, the SEX.
trust me, I could fill the whole page . . . .

Also, all white women don't treat all white bois with contempt and pity, just so we can use them.
Only the ones that want to be treated like that and they seem to enjoy it.
Cuckolding is a lifestyle, a mindset, it's not total world domination.

My advice to guys is and always has been this: if you like the ride the lifestyle will give you then hold on with both hands, if it gets too much then find a nice homely girl and settle down and have the 2.4 children and the house with the white picket fence.
It may even work for you, but deep inside there will always be the need to see your woman taken by a stronger more powerful Alpha male because you want your female to have the best and the gut wrenching jealousy you feel by watching is soon superceeded by sheer sexual excitement.

At least that's what my male friends tell me.

Tonya,

Good call ... you sure got this right.

 

[iraddict]

Hi all, I see where the OP is going with this but I do have a few observations and I'm not speaking for womankind here, just the way I see it, OK?

As far as the suggestion of white bois acting more "Black", I'm afraid sticking a Ferrari badge on a Volkswagen doesn't make it an Italian thoroughbred driving experience, guys!
I mean apart from the attitude and the obvious physical attributes, there is the touch, the smell, the passion, the SEX.
trust me, I could fill the whole page . . . .

Also, all white women don't treat all white bois with contempt and pity, just so we can use them.
Only the ones that want to be treated like that and they seem to enjoy it.
Cuckolding is a lifestyle, a mindset, it's not total world domination.

My advice to guys is and always has been this: if you like the ride the lifestyle will give you then hold on with both hands, if it gets too much then find a nice homely girl and settle down and have the 2.4 children and the house with the white picket fence.
It may even work for you, but deep inside there will always be the need to see your woman taken by a stronger more powerful Alpha male because you want your female to have the best and the gut wrenching jealousy you feel by watching is soon superceeded by sheer sexual excitement.

At least that's what my male friends tell me.

First of all, thanks for the replies. I see what you're saying Tanya, but I think you misunderstood me a bit. Probably my fault. In response to the Ferrari/ Voltzwagen metaphor, I agree for the most part. But (unfortuantely) there aren't enough black guys to go around. Most of the country (excluding the big cities) is 99% white. But even in areas like that, the girls would much rather fuck a white guy who has the player attitude than a white guy who doesn't. What I was saying was that more and more white guys are picking up on that. And as a result I'm seeing a lot more white guys acting that way as opposed to the traditional husband/ father way.
As far as settling down with 2.4 kids and the white picket fence, it's not happening. Basically what these guys are saying (and I have to tend to agree with them) is that they can either a) be the type of guy who does whatever he wants, sleep with whoever he wants, and not take shit off any woman, and get tons more pussy than he would get otherwise, or b) he can be a nice, sensitive caring guy who commits to one woman, and end up divorced, lose his kids, his house, and a good portion of his check for the next eighteen years of his life (alimony and child support), while his ex wife goes back to banging alpha's in his old house with a monthly check from her sucker ex husband to supplement her income.
Guys are starting to realize that they'd much rather be the first guy than the second guy. And as a result, marriage and family are going down the tubes. Literally just about every older guy I work with is in the second situation. And just about every young guy I work with is seeing that and deciding to opt for situation A. Either that or they're completely withdrawing from women all together into video games and porn. Most of the younger girls just haven't caught on yet, because they're still banging the bad boys and ignoring the nice guys. But women in their late twenties and early thirties are starting to look around and notice that the nice guys that in the past they would have been starting a family with are not there anymore. They're either out doing the "pump and dump" with no interest in settling for just one woman, or they're so bitter that they don't want anything to do with them. Hence the articles I mentioned in my first post (almost all written by middle aged women) questioning why men are refusing to get married and commit.
Like I said before, I think black guys figured this out a long time ago. As a result, they get laid by a lot larger variety of women. But they don't get married and raise kids. Just look at the inner cities. Tons of single mothers, not many families. And I have a feeling white society is starting to follow the same route. That was kind of the point I was trying to make. That in the old days women were getting what they wanted as far as a lifelong mate and partner, but they probably weren't getting what they wanted sexually. And nowdays, that's starting to reverse. They're getting what they want sexually, but they're gonna' have a hard time finding someone willing to commit to them. It's pretty much one or the other. If guys grow up seeing the nice responsible guy getting the most attractive women, then that's who they're gonna' become. But if they grow up seeing the player bad boy type get the most attractive women, then they're gonna' grow up to be more like that. And don't get me wrong. I'm not judging. Actually, I think this is a lot more natural. Men have an evolutionary need to spread their seed around as much as possible in order to ensure their offspring survive. And since women can't do that, (it would destroy their bodies) they're programmed to search out the strongest, most dominant males they can find to ensure they're offspring get the best genes. Marriage and family (as well as commitment and fidelity) were meant to curtail our natures. But with those things starting to become outdated and obsolete, I think we've begun to revert to more natural mating patterns. At least that's my take on it. I was just curious as to what everyone elses thoughts are. And like I said, this is more something that I'm seeing in the younger generation. People over forty probably aren't seeing this nearly as much. But it is happening. The question is what it's going to lead to as far as society as a whole is concerned...

 

[willsrvu]

Well you too seem to be enlightened.
However, may I be so bold as to fill in a few gaps?
You say you just used women as cum dumps, remember that it was you that was being used as well, by us as cum dumper!
Women do like sex and we don't all want just one steady partner, think of it as two people being mutually used!
It's in our instinct to be attracted to a dominant Alpha, thug type if you will, that offers protection.
There's just something about a dangerous bad boy type that makes us want them.

Yes, I'd have to say you're right about all that. They were out to have a good time just like I was and, luckily for me, I fit the bill for what they were looking for.

Sounds like you have a pretty good relationship, but remember the step from fantasy to reality may only appear small but it will be a lifechanger, usually a good one.
Take it from one who knows - there is no going back for either you or her, she will never be satisfied by one cock anymore than you would be happy settling for one on one vanilla sex for the rest of your life.
This lifestyle really is a thrill-a-minute white knuckle ride, so you'd better hold on to your hat - and your heart . . . .

Ah, if only!
Seriously, if it happens it will be great. I'm secure in that I give her something few men can, which she appreciates, unconditional love. She knows I'm there for the long haul.

I don't worry about her finding a good cock, she's had them before I came along and I'm sure she'd find some more if anything happened to take me out of the picture. I just don't see why she shouldn't enjoy them now as well. I mean she enjoys her vibrators and other toys as well as me, so why not another dick? Hell, we're talking enjoying sex here, not having kids. She's been there, done that, got the tee shirt and wishes she didn't.

Anyway, I think that if the right guy came along she might, but it's just not something she has a need to run out and do. Actually, lately I get the vibe she might be more apt to try playing on the other team for a thrill as that's something she's never done and there is a young lady she's taken a fancy too. Has mentioned that if the lady showed an interest, she might just go there.....

will